Guest Chapter 8

Name: Jolene A. Yee

Current Position: General Counsel & Vice-President Government Affairs, Delicato Family Wines; Adjunct Professional Faculty, Sonoma State University – Global Wine Executive MBA Program; Advisory Board Member, Hamel Family Wines.

Former Post-Law School Positions: Associate General Counsel with E. & J. Gallo Winery; Associate with Cooley Godward (now Cooley LLP); Foreign Legal Consultant with Kim & Chang.

Legal Practice Area: General Counsel and Government Affairs (aka regulatory/legislative nerd). Started my legal life negotiating talent contracts for a small independent film that no one should ever see but starring some really cool actors, then migrated to acquisitions of financially distressed assets, did a short stint in the tech sector before finally finding my “work soulmate’ in the alcohol beverage industry, advising two of the finest wine-making families in the business on everything from grape to shelf, with a significant amount of my earlier career spent on M&A and international collaborations. Along the way, I made it a priority to focus on “women's issues” in the workplace, which all of you should now know really means EVERYONE's ISSUES in the workplace, but doing my best to generate interest in programs focused on the development, retention, and promotion of women.

Law School and Year: Why does Jason need to know my age??? University of California Hastings College of the Law, 1996. Yes, technically I was senior to him at Cooley (where we met) but he knew a hell of a lot more than I did about how Silicon Valley law practice worked.

Time between undergrad and law school: 5 months. I graduated from UCLA a little early and decided to try my hand at “English Living”; I did a “pupil barristership” and took a class on the European Community and lived in London, and it was an absolutely amazing way to learn that I did not want to be a criminal defense lawyer.

Some books I recommend: I love books. I love the way they look on my bookshelf every which way, and we have LOTS of bookshelves all over the house. This is a tough question.

1. The Alchemist by Paolo Coelho. This is a fable that you can read in a snap. But whenever someone I know is “stuck” I give it to them to read. You can do it in one sitting. When I was floundering around not knowing what I was supposed to do next, a friend gave me this book and it changed my life.

2. Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher and William Ury. This is the gold standard of negotiating and many of the processes if used properly really do work. The authors have done a decent job updating the examples in the most recent edition.

3. Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss what Matters Most by Douglas Stone. This is a great handbook by some of the same folks who crafted Getting to Yes from the Harvard Negotiation Project on how to approach to tough conversations you really need to have.

The nontraditional reason that had a kinda-sorta traditional outcome—Why I went to law school and what happened when I got there

When I was growing up, I was a chatterbox and described as “bossy” (today we just call that practicing my leadership skills); I loved to watch Perry Mason, my favorite book was To Kill a Mockingbird, I loved to talk, and in junior high I successfully prosecuted the big bad wolf for terrorizing Little Red Riding Hood in Moot Court (or something like that) and everyone used to tell me I should go to law school. But I went to law school for none of those reasons. I went to Law School for EXPEDIENCY.

When I was a junior in college, I decided I wanted to be an academic, and I wanted to teach. And one of my favorite professors sat me down and told me that pursuing a PhD was a very long a painful process, it would take ten years, and at the end I would be poor, in debt, and probably teaching at some unknown college in the middle of nowhere (and almost certainly somewhere I didn't want to be).

Dang, THAT Is Irritating! (Or what frustrates me about people newly out of law school)

Kids these days! But seriously, the differences among my generation (Gen X) and younger generations have certainly created some interesting work challenges. What I've noticed over the last few years among many recent law graduates or lawyers early in their careers are two things: first, they think they know a lot more than they do. Unfortunately, law schools leave you ill-prepared for the actual practice of law. Most law schools do a really nice job of teaching you how to think like a lawyer. The Socratic method challenges your brain to continue exploring different avenues and permutations of possible outcomes, and IRAC is a fantastic method of breaking down and understanding a case. But law schools often don't give you a lot of the skills you need to practice law. How do you navigate the billable hour? How do you engage with your colleagues? When should you ask questions? (Pssst … the answer is ALWAYS.) What is EQ? How do you write a concise e-mail with the right amount of information and not too much explanation? WHAT DO CLIENTS REALLY WANT??? Unfortunately, these things are generally learned during the first years of practice by sucking on a fire hose and crossing your fingers while standing on one leg and hoping someone takes you under their wing. Second, these same folks expect rocket movement up the proverbial ladder regardless of competence or skillset, but merely as a matter of course and expectation. I've had many conversations with new lawyers who expect to work 9-to-t, no weekends, but still make General Counsel within a few years.

Also, I forgot to mention that I am highly annoyed by poor grammar. Please learn the difference between which and that. Know when to use a semi-colon and a colon. And the use of a period is not “aggressive.”

The Importance of Empathy, Listening, Asking, and Giving Advice

I think that when most people think of lawyers, these four words probably don't come to the top of their minds. But in actuality, these “soft skills” are really an integral part of being a truly effective lawyer. You shouldn't underestimate the power of empathy. Whether you're a litigator litigating a high-stakes trial or an M&A lawyer negotiating a definitive agreement, or an employment lawyer negotiating a termination agreement, having empathy, and stepping into the shoes of the other party can help you come to a solution more quickly and with less conflict. Empathy should not be viewed as weakness, but as understanding; it's one of the traits that truly brings out our humanity, and should be revered in legal practice.

Likewise, Listening is a vital part to the practice of law and is something I use every day, not only in the practice of law but in the management of my team. As an example, when I actively listen to my clients, it allows me to better map out my thoughts and figure out how to attack any issues. It demonstrates to my clients that I'm engaged in the discussion and that I care about their issues. And it allows me to determine what additional information I need to figure out a resolution.

This leads me to the next crucial core skill of Asking. Knowing when and how to ask questions is an important lawyering skill. It sounds cliche but the only dumb question is the one you don't ask.

Last, knowing when and how to give advice is the core of the practice of law. Often, people don't want the advice you have to give. You've probably heard the phrase Don't Kill the Messenger? Understanding when and how to give advice is vital to being an effective lawyer. Giving advice that might be difficult to hear is definitely a skill. If you have some advice that you know will be challenging both to deliver and to hear, practice giving it first, more than once. Listen to how you sound, and then massage your tone and delivery. It might sound silly, but your tone and word choice will be important to ensuring that the message you want to deliver is both heard and understood.

Boy, That Was a Doozy

Not really. I don't have many regrets from law school. I'm probably one of the few people who admits to actually loving my law school experience. At the time, however, I could not have predicted my future as a business lawyer. In law school I thought I might work for the government or do public interest work. It never occurred to me that I might need a background in business. Looking back, the one thing I probably would have done differently is applied for the joint program with Berkeley's school of Business and attempted the condensed JD/MBA program. My husband (also a General Counsel, of a tactical gear company) has a JD/MBA and assures me I'm not missing anything, but I think that having the financial education would have better prepared me for my life as a General Counsel and given me a leg up when I am wearing my “business hat.”

I think another mistake I made was choosing my first-year elective based on the subject matter. I chose employment discrimination because I thought it would be a fun sexy subject! Unfortunately, the professor was deadly boring.

I really wish I had taken Federal Taxation. No, Really!

As I stated earlier, I could never have predicted that my life would take the road it took. If I knew then what I know now, I 100% would have taken Federal Taxation. Yes, tax. Having a basis in tax earlier in my career would have been very helpful.

Moot Court Prepared Me for Life. Legal Writing Prepared Me for Art

There are a lot of useful courses in law school, but a few stand out for me. I am sure that philosophically some people believe that the usefulness of classes depend on what area you plan to practice. But in reality, I think that most subject matter classes teach you how to think like a lawyer, and the subject matter is somewhat interchangeable. That being said, I think torts stands out to me as being particularly good at providing a great platform for legal analysis. Moot Court, however, stands out as the series of classes that really honed my “lawyer” skills. It gave me the opportunity to put legal research skills into practice, and the writing and re-writing of briefs gave me the opportunity to understand the process of creating and refining legal arguments and the art of storytelling. Last, “moot court” forced me to learn public speaking skills and to learn to think on my feet. If you survive Moot Court and can stomach the public speaking aspect, I can't recommend enough going through the competition process. At UC Hastings, it's truly a competitive sport where the preparation process requires you to look at every possible angle of an argument, to argue both sides of a case, and to argue the same case over and over until you feel almost over-prepared for oral argument. This allowed me to gain a confidence in public speaking that I believe I would not have been able to gain in another way.

Learning how to write like a lawyer is extremely important. It's crucial that law students and new lawyers understand how to write for different audiences. When is a memo the right deliverable? (Hint: for a General Counsel, pretty much never.) When will a concise e-mail do? (For me, almost always.) How do I get 1000 words worth of ideas fit into space for 250? Your Legal Writing class is your introduction in how to communicate like a lawyer, and it's a very important part of the process of becoming an actual practicing attorney. A really good piece of legal writing is definitely like a piece of art.

My Life Is a Series of Accidents, but I'm Fine

I went to law school to become a Professor, but instead I'm a General Counsel. And that was not in any way by design. My professional life, and to some extent my personal life, has been a series of falls uphill. It wasn't always pretty, but somehow it all worked out!

My second-year summer I clerked at a small boutique law firm in San Francisco that practiced some entertainment law, some political law, and some bankruptcy. A weird mix, but it was interesting work. They made me an offer, but I held off on accepting while I looked into clerkships. I had some reservations, but ultimately accepted the offer. And then two weeks before the Bar Exam the firm decided to split and “revoked” my offer (legally, this was not possible, since you can't revoke an already-accepted offer, but I digress…). In any event, after the Bar Exam, six weeks in Europe, convincing my entertainment law professor to get me a gig in LA with his friend on a film, and then doing some freelance law and motion work, I threw caution to the wind and applied for a job for which I was completely unqualified, at a firm in Seoul, Korea. It was an incredible elite firm in Asia, and I was lucky to call it my home for about 2½ years. The experience I earned there helped pave my career.

Fast forward almost two decades, during which I experienced a series of personal tragedies and professional nightmares, including being laid off from a tech firm shortly before 9/11, but in every single case where I landed next was almost always unexpected and most certainly better than where I was before. I've led a charmed life of always falling uphill.

So how good was I at predicting what I was going to do? It appears I failed miserably. But this failure feels pretty damn good.

I know I've made a lot of mistakes, but if I don't remember them, I assume they weren't important…

In terms of lawyering mistakes, I am sure I made more than a few in my first job, but I guess they weren't that important because I don't remember them now. They probably seemed earth-shattering at the time! Some mistakes I remember at later jobs that still haunt me… #1: using autofill on Outlook and sending an email to cousin Cameron instead of to client Cameron. TURN OFF AUTOFILL. This is a common mistake and can be devastating. What if the e-mail I sent to cousin Cameron instead of client Cameron had hyper-sensitive super confidential information in it? Grand-scale mistake. #2: traveling to a new city for meetings, not understanding traffic patterns, underestimating how long it would take to get to the meeting and showing up late. ALWAYS LEAVE EXTRA EARLY. Go find a Peet's coffee, or hang out in your car. It doesn't matter. Don't be late.

Don't Leave the House Without Lipstick—The Best Advice

I always say trust your gut. Intuition is there for a reason. It's primal, it's intended to protect you FROM EARLY DEATH. So if you're feeling like something's not quite right, trust yourself.

Also, when I was in college, I was an intern at the LA City Attorney's office. One of the Law Student Externs told me that when considering what job to take, the people are more important than the practice. If you have amazing colleagues, then no matter what type of law you're practicing, you'll enjoy coming to work each day. But if you have horrible colleagues, not even the best work can save you. This has held true for me to this day.

Last, my mother always told me never to leave the house without putting on lipstick. I don't think this was really about the lipstick. Something to think about.

You Have to Wear a Skirt, and Other Bad Advice

I went to Law School in the 1990s, and the legal profession was still very, very sexist. Maybe it hasn't changed very much, but back then career advisors were adamant that women wear skirt suits to job interviews. And skirt suits also meant pantyhose. Do you know what skirts and pantyhose meant to 25-year-old Jolene? It meant 25-year-old Jolene was insanely uncomfortable, hot, fidgety and unhappy. One hundred percent this does not lead to a good baseline for an interview. Ultimately, you need to be at your best in an interview. You 100% need to look professional, and oftentimes that requires a suit. But to be at your best, it's my opinion that you need to be comfortable in your own skin. After a few hit-and-misses, I ditched the pantyhose, and sometimes even ditched the skirts in favor of a beautiful dark pantsuit. Still professional, but very me. When I went to work in Seoul, where skirts and pantyhose were the norm, but the six-day work-week and turning off the air conditioning at 6pm in the summertime was also the norm, I rebelled and ditched the pantyhose and sometimes even wore tank tops under my suits and took off my jacket when they turned off the air. But they got used to it.

If Someone Tells You They Are Happy All the Time, They Are Lying

I don't think anyone could honestly say they were happy in their profession 100% of the time. But I've had and continue to have a wonderful career, and I have much for which to be thankful. I've had different roles over my career, and there have been pros and cons with all of them. I think I'm most happy when I'm learning, and growing, when I'm working with bright and talented people, and when I feel like I'm helping others in one form or another.

In my current role, I've had more opportunity to work as part of the executive team and to work on cross-functional projects. I really enjoy delving into new areas and to see things from different perspectives. I also love tackling problems and finding creative solutions, and I enjoy the process of working through issues in a methodical way. The other part I've really loved about this current role is building a team from scratch. It's allowed me to be slow and methodical in the design of a “perfect legal department,” finding the right personalities and the right expertise to fit the business. Then working with each member of the team on personal development, and on team development, has been personally very satisfying.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I strive always to try and balance the ever-moving scales. I love work, I love family time, and I also need time that's just for myself. It's a constantly moving target, but I am happy in my profession because I'm able to feed all three of these aspects of myself well enough at any given time. They don't all get the right “care and feeding” at the same time, but over a period of time, they seem to do ok. When things aren't going right, I force myself to take a step back and review whether all three pieces are getting the care and feeding they need; if one or another is not, then it's time to make a change.

If you could go back and tell yourself something about the transition from law school to the practice of law what would it be?

You will experience life to the fullest. You will have great love, great loss, tragedy, and triumph; you will fail, but you will pick yourself up off the ground and learn from that failure, and you will ultimately succeed. So during these early years as you're just starting out, make sure you are kind to yourself, and kind to others. Don't worry about what everyone else is doing, and instead follow the motto you will one day tell your kids when they are having a tough time: Do your best, and get a little better every day.