Guest Chapter 2

Name: Phil Weiser

Current Position: Colorado Attorney General

Former Post-Law School Positions: Dean and Professor University of Colorado Law School; Founder and Executive Director Silicon Flatirons; Senior Advisor, National Economic Council; Deputy Assistant Attorney General, US DOJ; Senior Counsel for Telecom Policy, US DOJ; and law clerk, U.S.

Legal Practice Area: Telecommunication and Innovation Policy

Law School and Year: New York University School of Law, 1994

Time between undergrad and law school: One year between, working on political campaigns and in New York City government

One or two books I recommend: Mindset by Carol Dweck and Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher and William Ury are great to expand the brain in a useful way for the profession of law. And just for fun, Big Fish by Daniel Wallace.

Short background on why I went to law school

I was really focused on how to prepare for public service. Service was always top of mind, and I believed, with the help of a mentor, that law school would prepare me for public service. It was absolutely the case.

What frustrated me most about coming out of law school and/or what frustrates me with regards to people I work with or hire who are newly out of law school

My overall critique of legal education is that it doesn't develop enough soft skills, including emotional intelligence, which are important for lawyers. Ideally, every student would take courses like negotiations to develop a problem-solving mindset. The idea that problems are solved in the courtroom (as law school repeatedly teaches) gives students a warped perspective on interpersonal dynamics.

How have you used (or not) the core concepts of lawyering as this book proposes: Empathy, Listening First, Asking Questions, and Giving Advice?

Listening first is an important concept.

Empathy determines whether people believe you care about them or not. If they think you don't care about them, it undermines the relationship. Law is a relationship business. Empathy can be practiced and honed. Ken Sharpe and Barry Schwartz wrote a book called Practical Wisdom, which talks about a lot of these soft skills. I think they are correct when they say, “While it's debatable whether it (empathy) can be taught, it can be learned.” Part of how you learn is working in a group setting and getting feedback about how you listen and empathize.

As for asking questions, I call that intellectual curiosity. If you are enthusiastic and have a learning mindset, it will serve you very well.

In the context of giving advice, this falls under the idea of problem solving. For any lawyer, you must be willing and eager to solve problems early on in your career. At our best, we are creative problem solvers.

Biggest mistake(s) you made while in law school

I worked my first summer for a civil rights lawyer and I didn't ask for guidance on an important project. I turned in some work that was incomplete and he had to spend his entire weekend fixing my mistakes and compensating for the research I failed to do. It was a lesson that has stayed with me.

A frustration involving students or people that I hire is when people don't ask enough questions. They might assume they know things because they don't want to appear dumb. Or they spend too much time on doing things that aren't useful because they are afraid to ask for guidance.

Most useful classes in law school

Negotiations, seminars, and clinics.

How did you decide what to do post-law school? With hindsight, how good of a job did you do?

I clerked for Judge David Ebel on the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Biggest mistake you made while at your first job

The first memo I wrote contained way too much extraneous information. I got a lot of feedback and adapted. Ultimately, I learned how to follow Justice Ginsburg's counsel: “Get it right and keep it tight.”

As a person who works with junior lawyers, I think many people don't appreciate the value of looking for a job that gives them the best experience and best mentors, versus going for money. I realize that law school isn't cheap, but I advise students to play the long game by developing valuable experience and mentors early in their careers.

Best advice you received or have given for those coming out of law school

Take the job with the best experience. Invest in the franchise of you. It's your most important investment.

Worst advice you received or have given for those coming out of law school

Besides not going for the money, people need to focus on what they are called to do. I have seen people psych themselves out because they think they should be doing something else. Listen to your calling.

How have remained happy in your profession? Have there been times when you were not? If so, what did you do to improve your situation?

I've been fortunate to keep myself in positions where I'm continually learning. This makes me happy. I need to feel purpose and meaning in my work to be happy and fulfilled. When I'm less happy, I always ask myself, “Is this the right thing for me to be doing?”

If you could go back in time and tell your younger self something about making the transition from law school to the real world, what would it be?

Trust the process and enjoy the journey.

SUCCESS in the legal profession

If you are reading this book, you are likely in (or thinking about attending) law school. The authors of this book have mountains of advice for you, which may conflict because each of us has our own experiences and perspectives. So as you read this book, be introspective. There are many paths to success, and ultimately, you will chart your own course. I hope that some of our suggestions assist you in your journey.