Guest Chapter 16

Name: Jennifer R. Zimmerman

Current Position: Managing Partner, Dolan + Zimmerman LLP; co-chair of Colorado-Criminal Defense Bar, Boulder; owner, Boulder Wine Merchant; founder Boulder Burgundy Festival NFP

Former Post-Law School Positions: Of-Counsel at Jurdem, LLC; associate attorney at Berg Hill Greenleaf & Ruscitti LLP; adjunct professor at Front Range Community College

Legal Practice Area: Criminal Defense Attorney

Law School and Year: University of Colorado, 2007

Time between undergrad and law school: 2 years (paralegal)

One or two books I recommend:

1.

2. Cross Examination: Science and Techniques by Larry Pozner and Roger Dodd – The definitive book on effective cross examination techniques.

Short background on why I went to law school

After working as a paralegal at first a small firm and then a large firm, I knew I was as smart and driven as the attorneys and decided to apply to law school. I assumed I would become a civil litigator specializing in construction law, like one of my long-time mentors. I clerked at the same firm where I was a paralegal and was extended a job offer as a lawyer after my first year in law school. I had every intention of spending my career at that firm and was committed to jump onto the partner track even before I graduated from law school. After accepting that position I began working with the criminal defense partner at the firm so that I could get courtroom experience (something that is surprisingly difficult to come by in civil litigation).

What frustrated me most about coming out of law school and/or what frustrates me with regards to people I work with or hire who are newly out of law school

By the time I graduated from law school, I had spent five years with my firm—first as a paralegal, and then clerking for all three years of law school. I was quite familiar with the firm, the people, the internal policies, and the cases. Even so, nothing prepared me for my first year as an attorney. I realized that I had no idea how to be a lawyer or how to advise clients. I remember talking with a friend who had just begun her medical residency and wishing that there was a formal apprentice program for lawyers. Instead, my first year out of law school was a bit of trial by fire. I was given cases as soon as I passed the bar, and I was expected to handle cases on my own, and to know when I needed to ask for help. Although I made mistakes, I learned quickly. The realization that individual clients were relying on me to tell them what to do with serious and complex cases was terrifying and exhilarating. It inspired me to learn as much as I could as quickly as I could so that I could more confidently and accurately advise my clients. Although I originally thought the most daunting part of my job would be court appearances, I quickly learned that court was the easy part. The preparation, research, writing, and connecting with clients so that they trust you is the real work, and the work that makes the job worth it.

I have been most frustrated with new lawyers at our firm doing three specific things: (1) Not taking ownership of clients. Young lawyers often treat work as specific projects with a limited scope, and don't spend the time to consider how their work would be integrated into representation of and advocacy for the client.

How have you used (or not) the core concepts of lawyering as this book proposes: Empathy, Listening First, Asking Questions, and Giving Advice?

I have used these concepts throughout my career. As a criminal defense attorney, I am focused on representing individuals in matters that can have a serious and negative impact in their lives. My clients are stigmatized in the community because of their charges, and often have underlying mental health and addiction issues.

Empathy and listening rather than jumping in with advice based on the charges has been a core value of our firm. Taking that approach has allowed us to ask relevant questions and ensure both that our clients feel heard and that we are in possession of the best information to advocate on their behalf.

Starting with empathy, listening, and asking questions creates a strong attorney–client relationship so that when it is time to give advice (which it always is at some point), the client feels confident in our services and expertise and can take steps to make an important and consequential decision in their lives.

I believe that part of my success as a lawyer has been based on these concepts. This is both because listening and asking questions creates an appearance that I am confident and knowledgeable so that the client can accept my advice, but also because having a framework for interacting with clients where they get to tell their story and feel heard helps them feel secure.

I have seen this same phenomenon play out with young lawyers as well. Having the innate ability to empathize with and listen to clients facilitates a strong attorney–client bond. Once that bond exists, even a young lawyer appears confident and knowledgeable to her client and can provide solid legal advice.

Biggest mistake(s) you made while in law school

The biggest mistake I made in law school was spending more time working than at school. I clerked throughout law school at the firm I ultimately worked for and focused almost entirely on the future.

In hindsight, I should have spent more time getting to know my classmates. What I learned later in my career is that those relationships are valuable. Now that I regularly interact with opposing counsel and judges who were classmates, I realize how beneficial that connection is for getting complex matters resolved. While neither a judge or prosecutor would ever do something unfair or unethical for a law school classmate, that history can ensure that you get the benefit of the doubt when you genuinely need it.

What class(es) did I wish I had taken while in law school? In or outside the school? What about today?

In law school, I should have taken more varied courses, and not limited myself to the areas I believed would be my focus. More breadth of knowledge about different areas of law allows a lawyer to spot collateral issues that may otherwise not seem relevant.

At this point, I wish I had more experience in business management and economics. The business side of law is something that most lawyers will encounter at some point in their career. I had to learn about these areas through trial and error after my partner and I opened our own firm. I know we both wished we had some background in general business concepts, like business and revenue models, and in general management.

Most useful classes in law school

The absolute most useful class I took in law school was the criminal defense clinic. I spent a year representing indigent defendants in minor criminal matters and had the opportunity to appear in court doing everything from bond arguments to motions hearings and trials. Appearing in court is something that can only be learned through experience. Graduating with some knowledge about the logistics of court and the way the rules of evidence worked in practice allowed me to start my career with more confidence.

How did you decide what to do post-law school? With hindsight, how good of a job did you do?

I had committed to a large law firm prior to graduating and, at the time, believed I was going to pursue a career in complex civil litigation. I had planned to use criminal defense as a way to gain courtroom experience and set myself apart from other civil litigators. After law school, I quickly realized that I preferred criminal defense work.

In hindsight, I stand by my choices. I was able to gain valuable experience in both civil and criminal litigation at that firm, and also learned a fair amount about the workings of a law firm. Those three things, in combination, contributed to me having the drive to start my own law firm.

Biggest mistake you made while at your first job

I made big mistakes at my first job. The first was making personal sacrifices that didn't matter to the firm. For example, I chose not to take a honeymoon after my wedding because I didn't want to miss work. I realized later that the partners would never have noticed if I took time off for that, and certainly didn't notice that I chose not to take time off.

The second big mistake I made was not asking enough questions. I incorrectly believed that I should have known everything already, and was worried that the partners would lose confidence in me if I asked too many questions. As a partner at my own firm, I know that part of a partner's job is teaching, and that they are happy to do it. As long as you research your question to the best of your ability first, a partner is always happy to help you get the rest of the way there. Law is a collaborative job that works better when lawyers ask questions.

I also found myself scared to ask a question that I thought, “I should know.” I would fake my way through some things hoping that I'd either learn along the way, or wouldn't get caught. I was lucky on the latter, but in hindsight, I didn't deliver the client service that I should have.

Best advice you received or have given for those coming out of law school

The best advice I ever received is to make myself indispensable. That can mean different things in different contexts, but in law it means taking complete ownership of your own work. If you are confident enough in yourself and willing enough to ask questions that a partner can give you a task and know that you will either come back to them with a question or a finished product, you will become indispensable. The most valuable employees I have ever had are those to whom I can delegate work and then completely forget that works exists because I am confident that they have it under control.

The second-best piece of advice I received is to always bring a notebook, a pen, and a calendar. If you have those things, you will be prepared to take notes and calendar deadlines. It also ensures that you appear prepared for anything from a client meeting to an internal firm meeting. When I meet with an employee and they come into my office without a notebook it makes me wonder if they understand the nature of this particular job.

Worst advice you received or have given for those coming out of law school

The worst advice I ever received is that meeting your hours goal is the only thing that matters. Quality of product and reliability both matter more than the sheer number of hours billed. While a new lawyer needs to be cognizant of any firm requirement, including hours, the specifics of the case and the client, and not your personal minimum billable requirement, should be driving your work. As long as you can make yourself indispensable through the quality of your work and taking ownership of your projects, most partners maintain some flexibility in hours requirements.

How have remained happy in your profession? Have there been times when you were not? If so, what did you do to improve your situation?

This is a hard career, and the work of continuing to find it rewarding takes effort. There are times where it feels like you are expending an amount of effort that is unsustainable, and there are times when it feels like it is busy and flowing and fun. I think finding some modicum of balance is especially hard for young lawyers who feel like they need to prove themselves.

I have, on balance, been happy in this career. I have found it consistently rewarding, intellectually interesting, often fun, and sometimes funny.

What I have learned over the course of my career in a larger firm, a small firm, and my own firm is to prioritize things that make me feel good and be honest with myself about what those things are. For me, I realize that taking time off of work to ski with my children is a priority. I leave work early every Friday in the winter to go to the mountains with my family. I also learned that taking time off to exercise is not a valuable use of my time. That is something that I can accomplish early in the morning when it does not impact my family or my job.

I have also learned that everything ebbs and flows, and to try to be okay with both of those things. There are times when I feel like I am working 24 hours per day and cannot catch my breath, and then the next week I take extra time off to see my family or take some time to myself. Law is a demanding job, but also has more flexibility than many other careers. Adapting to the changes in weekly, monthly, and yearly cycles allows me to find balance between family and work obligations.

Perhaps most importantly, I have learned that who you work with matters. Surrounding yourself with colleagues with whom you can be honest and vulnerable creates a stronger foundation for a career. We have set up a firm where we are able to provide outstanding work for clients and enjoy our time at work. We spend a significant portion of each day talking creatively about cases and laughing. When it comes down to it, we also have shared values regarding the importance of prioritizing clients and providing exceptional representation. I am confident that part of the reason we have been able to get great outcomes for so many clients is our shared values and work ethic, and the fact that we know we can rely upon each other.

If you could go back in time and tell your younger self something about making the transition from law school to the real world, what would it be?

I would have told myself to invest in myself instead of in a firm. I would have focused more on enhancing my legal skill and knowledge in order to make myself a better lawyer, and less time worrying whether I was living up to the expectations of the firm.

I also would have better preserved my time with my family and friends. Those are the people who are there for you when work is hard and whose grace you need when you have to cancel plans in order to work.